Just Food for thought.

General Off-Topic
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Now everyone knows I try to stay out of politics but things have come to my attention and it made me think.

Things that make you think a little:

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January.
In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the
month of January. That’s just one American city,
about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq

When some claim that President Bush shouldn’t
have started this war, state the following:
a. FDR led us into World War II.
B. Germany never attacked us; Japan did.
From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost …
an average of 112,500 per year.

c. Truman finished that war and started one in Korea
North Korea never attacked us…
From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost …
an average of 18,334 per year.

d John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962.
Vietnam never attacked us.
e. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire.
From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost .
an average of 5,800 per year.

f. Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent.
Bosnia never attacked us.
He was offered Osama bin Laden’s head on a platter three
times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on
multiple occasions.

G. In the years since terrorists attacked us , President Bush
has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya , Iran , and, North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking.
ButIt took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation…

We’ve been looking for evidence for chemical weapons
in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find
the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.

It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida !!!

But Wait There’s more!

JOHN GLENN (ON THE SENATE FLOOR)
Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13

Some people still don’t understand why military personnel do what they do for a living. This exchange between
Senators John Glenn and Senator Howard Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive impromptu speech, but it’s also a good example of one
man’s explanation of why men and women in the armed services do what they do for a living.

This IS a typical, though sad, example of what some who have never served think of the military.

Senator Metzenbaum (speaking to Senator Glenn):
“How can you run for Senate when you’ve never held a real job?”

Senator Glenn (D-Ohio):
“I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corps.
I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions. My plane was hit by anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions. I was in the space program. It wasn’t my checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It wasnot a nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the daily cash receipts to the bank.”

"I ask you to go with me … as I went the other day… to a veteran’s hospital and look those men with their mangled bodies . in the eye, and tell THEM they didn’t hold a job!
You go with me to the Space Program at NASA and go, as I have gone, to the widows and Orphans of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee… and you look those kids in the eye and tell them that their DADS didn’t hold a job.

You go with me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arlington National Cemetery, where I have more friends buried than I’d like to remember, and you watch
those waving flags.

You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell ME that those people didn’t have a job?

What about you?"

For those who don’t remember …
During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was an attorney representing the Communist Party in the USA.

Now he’s a Senator!

If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you are reading it in English thank a Veteran

Like i said I try not to get political but… what a little information does.

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Well said.

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I wounder why more people dont notice this stuff.

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Here in LA there is an extremely high population of liberals. I like to think of myself as seeking balance in things, when things get to conservative (like that “bomb” scare in boston) I swing left, and when things get too liberal I swing right. Anyways, so here in LA there are constant protest against the war, to stop it NOW, forget what needs to be done BRING THE BOYS HOME NOW! But I can’t help think of the war effort like a complete overhaul on a car. What the F*&K is the point of going in the garage, making a mess, building the car up only to burn rubber outta there leaving a complete mess for someone else to pick up.

That was the problem the first time the US went into the gulf, we didn’t clean up after ourselves.

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You may want to refrain from thinking if you can’t do it yourself, but I’ll humor your post anyways… (Yes, this may get nasty)

Things that make you think a little:

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January.
In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the
month of January. That’s just one American city,
about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq


Yes, because only americans die in Iraq. In detroit, one person takes a handgun, and shoots another unarmed, unarmored person. In Iraq, someone sets up a roadside bomb and waits for an american vehicle to drive by, then blows it to smitherines.

In Iraq, you get killed over country occupation/religious reasons/they just flat out hate us (And with good reason). In Detroit, you get killed over french fries… or perhaps a $50 bet. Apples and oranges, my friend.

Also, Iraq is a portion of the size of the united states. Allow me to demonstrate.

http://www.medicevolved.net/images/iraq-us-comparison.jpg

When some claim that President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following: a. FDR led us into World War II.
After Japan attacked us. Iraq did not attack us. Saudi Arabians attacked us. We attacked Afghanistan (which I can understand...). Then we attacked Iraq.
B. Germany never attacked us; Japan did.
A very good point. (You won't get much sympathy from me when it comes to democrats either)
From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost .. an average of 112,500 per year.
And that makes invading Iraq plausible. I see it now!
c. Truman finished that war and started one in Korea North Korea never attacked us.. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost ... an average of 18,334 per year.
You're right... we were chasing communism... another stupid place we shouldnt have been.
d John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. e. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost . an average of 5,800 per year.
We were chasing communism again... we shouldn't have been there. That's the reason we hated being there. The government wanted us there, not the population. Again, this is no vindication to make it OK. If someone in my apartment complex murders someone, does that mean I can? No. Why? It's not OK.
f. Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent. Bosnia never attacked us.
What... genocide isn't a good enough reason to break up a fight?
He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.
Source?
G. In the years since terrorists attacked us , President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya , Iran , and, North Korea without firing a shot,
Liberated? News flash... the Taliban is running Afghanistan again. So much for "liberating". North Korea and Iran are REAL threats to us, but we can't do anything because we're too busy in Iraq. Then again, there's no economic benefit in invading North Korea.
and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.
So Saddaam is a terrorist, but Bush isn't? Patriot act, anybody? I can list you a few laws that would qualify Bush as spreading terror here in our own homeland.
The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking. ButIt took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation..
Uhhh... so several years vs 51 days? Where the hell is the comparison in that? We're still in Iraq.
We've been looking for evidence for chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.
Didn't we have "photographic evidence" on the location of chemical weapons? And FYI, the search for chemical weapons was officially called off more than a year ago.
It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.
This is relevant? Come on!
It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida !!!!
We're still in Iraq... And we still can't count.

That’s about all I have time to comment on… Much love. :smiley:

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Yes, and at what point will we leave? What’s the criteria for “winning”?

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Things that make you think a little:

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January.
In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the
month of January. That’s just one American city,
about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq

This is so true. While in college, my sociology professor wrote the number of dead soldiers on the board as a demonstration. Mind you this is about 5 months into the war. After the third day, I pointed out that over 40,000 people die in car crashes every year. But you have a choice weather or not to get in the car.

Soldiers get paid to fight. Dying is a hazard of war. This is why you get paid more as a solider than as a janitor.

I agree, more people die in cities around the US vs. Iraq and its horrible. I believe that America should be looking more at its own problems before trying to solve those of the rest of the world.

A. FDR led us into World War II. B. Germany never attacked us; Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost... an average of 112,500 per year.

German U-boats did attack Allied ships, mostly American. FDR believed in Isolationism but supplied Allied forces with weapons and food. Then December 7th, 1941, Japan (part of the Axis Powers) attacked Pearl Harbor. The attack was supposed to cripple the US in the Pacific theatre so that Japan could capture the Oil fields in the Dutch East Indies.

…to capture oil fields. :? This sounds familiar.

c. Truman finished that war and started one in Korea North Korea never attacked us.. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost ... an average of 18,334 per year.

d John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962.
Vietnam never attacked us.

e. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire.
From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost .
an average of 5,800 per year.

Agreed, agreed, agreed.

f. Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent. Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

Clinton went to war in Bosnia to stop a Genocide; he succeeded.
Bush went to war with Iraq to secure Oil Fields. The result is still undetermined.

Clinton was offered Osama Bin Laden, but he was not a threat to the US at the time. Bin Laden’s family had great relations with America, especially the Bush Family. Bush Sr. to be specific.

Did anyone else notice the Genocide happening in Northern Africa? Oyeah, no Oil Fields there. Not much economic gain, continue with Iraq. If we can rap this up faster we could pick a fight with Iran. They have loads of Oil. Please know I do not support the war in Iraq, nor a future war with Iran Support the troops just not the cause.

Oyeah, speeaking of the cause to invade Iraq. It went something like this.
Terrorists in Iraq → WMDs → Liberation from a Tyrant → Spread of Democracy?
I’m shaky on the last one.

G. In the years since terrorists attacked us , President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya , Iran , and, North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

Liberated 2 countries: Afghanistan, used as a staging ground for 9/11 and Iraq, where it was believed to have Weapons of Mass Destruction / Chemical Weapons. WMDs that could not reach the United States and Chemical Weapons which were disposed of or at this point would be spoiled and useless anyways.

Inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea??? So what, they weren’t ordered by the UN to dismantle weapons. They were told to by the United States and we see how well that’s going. The US has no grounds for telling any country what they can and can’t do, unless their intention is to attack the US.

It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida !!!!

This was a shame. Every senator should be ashamed of them self. If you have enough people saying that there may be a problem with the count and only ONE Senator needs to put his signature down to question the validity of the election…there is a problem. Everyone knew there might be a problem and all it would have taken was 1 of 100, to question it. That was a disgrace.

As for Senator Metzenbaum; He never represented the Communist Party. I’m sorry, but you have been a victim of an Urban Legend. Here is just one of many sources I have found.
[url=http]John Glenn and Howard Metzenbaum-Truth!

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Hence why the focus needs to remain on cleaning things up properly. Not an immediate “drop things” and come home attitude, which is what most, most not all mind you liberal protesters want. Quite a few of the people I’ve known to participate in those picket lines have also expressed their desire to abstain from voting, thinking their vote doesn’t matter. As a citizen I place in office those who send the soldiers away to fight so it is my responsibility to be clear on where each candidate stands. Now, and here is where things might get a bit ugly, I believe Sadam needed to be removed. An operation that needed a surgeon’s blade. We kinda went in with a hand grenade and a chainsaw. It was the foreign policy after we occupied Iraq that I was dissatisfied over hence why I voted for Kerry. THERE I SAID IT! :stuck_out_tongue: But as a citizen I’m allowed to show my discomfort with a administration.

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wow… politics makes people hostile… This is why there are 3 rules to selling a car. 1) Dont talk politics, 2) dont talk finances (other then whats needed for the car obviously) and 3) Dont talk religion.

Here in LA there is an extremely high population of liberals. I like to think of myself as seeking balance in things, when things get to conservative (like that "bomb" scare in boston) I swing left, and when things get too liberal I swing right. Anyways, so here in LA there are constant protest against the war, to stop it NOW, forget what needs to be done BRING THE BOYS HOME NOW! But I can't help think of the war effort like a complete overhaul on a car. What the F*&K is the point of going in the garage, making a mess, building the car up only to burn rubber outta there leaving a complete mess for someone else to pick up.

That was the problem the first time the US went into the gulf, we didn’t clean up after ourselves.

Im the same way. I tend to play devils advocate / middleman / mediator. We have those protestors here in my little town too. They stand on the street corner holding the signs and banners chanting.

I also agree that we didnt clean up our mess the 1st time we went into the Gulf. As much as we would like to bring our troops home, its because of this we cant. We need to make sure the job is done. When I refer to the job I mean to secure the region and our interests (use your imagination) there.

Yes, and at what point will we leave? What's the criteria for "winning"?

We wont leave… Rather we CAN’T leave. We have made too much of a mess over there. In order for us to leave we need to prove the rest of the world right. That we can change the region for the better (meaning our interests again…). Until that happens we CAN’T leave.

Yes, because only americans die in Iraq. In detroit, one person takes a handgun, and shoots another unarmed, unarmored person. In Iraq, someone sets up a roadside bomb and waits for an american vehicle to drive by, then blows it to smitherines.

In Iraq, you get killed over country occupation/religious reasons/they just flat out hate us (And with good reason). In Detroit, you get killed over french fries… or perhaps a $50 bet. Apples and oranges, my friend.

Also, Iraq is a portion of the size of the united states. Allow me to demonstrate.

You sir are mistaken. Americans are not the only people that die in Iraq. Whats the difference between a gun-toting thug in Detroit and a gun-toting terrorist in Iraq? Semi-auto vs. automatic. Thats about it. Go read Baghdad Burning if you still think Americans are the only ones that die. Better yet goto Orgrish.com and take a look at some of the combat kill photos, At least they dont distinquish between victims.

As far as getting killed in Iraq, your explanation sounds like the reasoning behind every war fought in the history of the world. And in the same types of killing go on in Detroit. Theres not a day that goes by that I dont hear of some NYC kid being killed because someone hated him or what he represented. It is NOT apples and Oranges. Its the same fruit just in 2 different baskets.

Hence why the focus needs to remain on cleaning things up properly. Not an immediate "drop things" and come home attitude, which is what most, most not all mind you liberal protesters want. Quite a few of the people I've known to participate in those picket lines have also expressed their desire to abstain from voting, thinking their vote doesn't matter. As a citizen I place in office those who send the soldiers away to fight so it is my responsibility to be clear on where each candidate stands. Now, and here is where things might get a bit ugly, I believe Sadam needed to be removed. An operation that needed a surgeon's blade. We kinda went in with a hand grenade and a chainsaw. It was the foreign policy after we occupied Iraq that I was dissatisfied over hence why I voted for Kerry. THERE I SAID IT! But as a citizen I'm allowed to show my discomfort with a administration.

I know quite a few people who abstain from voting. They dont vote because like you said they believe that their vote doesn’t count. Who could blame them? The recent elections being rigged amongst LOW voter turnouts. It doesnt encourage people to vote. It sends them a message that no matter what you will have someone run your government whether you want them in office or not.

Now lets be reasonable. The US has a HIGH population. You CAN NOT expect a single vote to have ANY significant meaning. Especially when you have LARGE groups of individuals that go and BLOCK vote for one particular person. Try throwing a stone in the ocean (block voters), you get a small ripple(Individual voter). Throw that same stone in a puddle and the effect is greater due to smaller size of the body of water.

Sorry if I upset anyone.

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Wow did i ever open a can of worms.

ok im not going to start quoting ppl ansewering this and that. As far as Howard Metzenbaum i also did a bit of looking into it He represented certian Unions that had Communist ties or were investinated for Communist ties.

AS far as Clinton knowing about Osama enough of CIA ppl have come forward stating that they had him years ago. from the 1st towers attacks and the USS Cole. Which we never had solid proff of his envolvement but we knew he was the Banker behind it. ( I know Federal agents personally that have stated this) Ig we took him then 9-11 “MIGHT” not have happened but no one really knows.

AS far as Somolia we should have not been involved in a Civil war. point blank.

Iraq is going to end up in a Civil war After we leave. THe 2 biggest groups on that little block are going to fight sooner or later. WE are just a bit bigger and can conrtol them a little as of now. Should we go back in when the Civil war starts NO!!!

As far as Korea they would not allow UN inspectors in until the US rattlled his Saber . And by no means are we finished with them. Nor that nut in Iran that has treatened to turn Isreal into a parking lot. I suspect hes waiting for us to pull out of Iraq to either invade Iraq or make good on his treats to Israal. NOw personally I would like to see Isreal in action in my life time. THey are probable the best or one of the best trained army’s in the world. THey can hold there own just fine IMO

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ok im not going to start quoting ppl ansewering this and that. As far as Howard Metzenbaum i also did a bit of looking into it He represented certian Unions that had Communist ties or were investinated for Communist ties.

Investigated for Communist ties…I’m guessing the allegations turned up false. Had Communist ties? So what. I know a guy, who knows a guy, who is a Communist. I don’t think that makes me a communist. Would that make me a bad senator?

Secondly, Communism isn’t a bad idea. It’s just that the people who run them tend to be bad. Communism has worked for the Chinese for years. The system can work, but I only see it work for smaller countries, not very large ones. I understand there are exceptions to the rules (China) but no government system is perfect. But we have seen how “absolute power can corrupt absolutely.”

AS far as Clinton knowing about Osama enough of CIA ppl have come forward stating that they had him years ago. from the 1st towers attacks and the USS Cole. Which we never had solid proff of his envolvement but we knew he was the Banker behind it. ( I know Federal agents personally that have stated this) Ig we took him then 9-11 "MIGHT" not have happened but no one really knows.

Should’a, Could’a, Would’a.

Regardless, this is a Logical Fallacy. Given the hypothetical situation, expecting a definite outcome. But as you said, “…no one really knows.” So this irrelevant.

AS far as Somolia we should have not been involved in a Civil war. point blank.

I don’t believe this was mentioned before, but I agree. Should have let that one played out on it’s own. But the UN doesn’t have a real UN Military, so who else you going to get to do it?

Iraq is going to end up in a Civil war After we leave. THe 2 biggest groups on that little block are going to fight sooner or later. WE are just a bit bigger and can conrtol them a little as of now. Should we go back in when the Civil war starts NO!!!!!!!!!!

America was united South and North when we rebelled against the British. We later had our own Civil War. I think most countries have their own Civil War when views are so different. This might just be how things are decided.

Perhaps we need to piss off both sides until they unite and the US pretends to lose. Then they can figure it out what happens when the US pulls out. I don’t like this idea, but it is an option.

I suspect hes waiting for us to pull out of Iraq to either invade Iraq or make good on his treats to Israal. NOw personally I would like to see Isreal in action in my life time. THey are probable the best or one of the best trained army's in the world. THey can hold there own just fine IMO

Considering that Israel is best buds to America and they have been the recipients of much of our tank technology. The Merkava Mk4 is serious rival tanks to the M1A1 Abrams. I would think that Israel could smack Iran around easily, but would be unable to take the fight to Iran due to the problems they already have in the region.

Oh, and to give you all a real look at the death tolls in Iraq click this link. Unfortunately this isn’t up-to-date, but I think it will kind of give you a better idea of the death toll.

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All I know is that whoever is President, past present or future…Israel needs to be on our “Best Friends” list. Keeping with their side of things is the most important thing we can do as a nation.

This nation was founded by Christians who were basically fleeing the rule of the…Catholic(?)…church (Puritans and all those fun terms you “learned” in history class, but I know I’ve forgotten most of them anymore). All this stuff like abortion, homosexuality, political correctness…come on. Say what you mean, and mean what you say. I don’t care what y’all think…this nation needs to take a serious look back at it’s roots, and remember who started it all, and why it became such a great, and powerful nation. Without God we are nothing. We need a truly God fearing man to lead this nation. I believe that Bush has done, maybe not the best job, but definitely not as bad as the media would have you believe. Current possible candidates like the Muslim Obama, or the crazy Clinton (who’s already had 8yrs, come on now) must not be allowed control of this country. If they do, we’re in for a DOOZEY of a term…

As long as we have Israel’s back when any kind of conflict arises involving them…we’re in okay shape as far as leadership. IMO.

I hate politics because it seems to be just a bunch of rich butt heads looking to get more money. Although they may not necessarily be rich themselves, but their backers during the campaign seem to become a priority over the people once they make it into office. They need to remember that the people that fund their campaign aren’t the voices they need to be listening to while in office, it’s the people that elect them. All this “he said this” “he did that” nonsense needs to stop. Just say what you’re for and against and leave it at that and back it up once you get elected. Campaigning as it is today needs to stop. Oh, and they’re always trying to get more money…I’d hate to know how much they make by being, “Public Servants.” They’re better off than any of us on the board, I’m sure. That’s not right. That’s not being a civil servant. Servants don’t make more than their master or they would be a servant, now would they?

I also blame the media. The bastards in charge don’t tell the whole story for anything, and they’re as much to blame for a lot that happens, or how people react as the government is.

BTW…thanks for the worms Roush. :wink:

  • Darron
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Ah, so a nation that started with the near-genocide of the native american race, and invasion of a much less powerful country (Mexico) has god to thank for what… their mass murdering?

Have you ever heard of Sand Creek, CO? It was the location of a native american tribe that was slaughtered by united states military. Oh yeah, they only killed the women, children, and old men… the braves of the tribe were away on a hunt. Roosevelt called it one of the defining moments in american history and rewarded the commanding officers.

Need more examples? Here ya go.

How about the mystic massacre? You know, the one where your god fearing christian pilgrims attacked a camp of mostly women and children and burned it to the ground.

"Mason declared that the holocaust against the Pequot was also the act of a God who “laughed his Enemies and the Enemies of his People to scorn making [the Pequot] as a fiery Oven . . . Thus did the Lord judge among the Heathen, filling [Mystic] with dead Bodies.” – Real god-like.

I know I know… “he wasn’t one of US!” It’s the same shitty excuse every christian uses. You disassociate yourself from the “nutjobs” in your religion, yet when it comes down to it, they’re usually hte ones following the bible while you sit by idle ignoring your own religion. Irony abounds.

We need a truly God fearing man to lead this nation. I believe that Bush has done, maybe not the best job, but definitely not as bad as the media would have you believe.
Blame it on the media... Why are we in iraq? Why were we told we were going to iraq? Why was bush on record several months prior discussing the invasion of iraq... and actually set a date that we're going in regardless of what sadaam did?
Current possible candidates like the Muslim Obama
He's christian, get your facts right.
or the crazy Clinton (who's already had 8yrs, come on now)
Yeah... 8 years of relative peace, save for a few wordly conflicts. We can't be havin that!
must not be allowed control of this country. If they do, we're in for a DOOZEY of a term...
How could they POSSIBLY fuck it up more than Bush has?
As long as we have Israel's back when any kind of conflict arises involving them...we're in okay shape as far as leadership. IMO.
And why is that? Our support of israel is what makes every arab nation hate us.... well... did, until we gave them more reasons (Iraq).
I hate politics because it seems to be just a bunch of rich butt heads looking to get more money.
You're right. And guess what? [url=http://www.bizforum.org/FFR-Senate-05.htm]Every person in the united states senate is religious[/url]. You're not making much ground here.
Although they may not necessarily be rich themselves, but their backers during the campaign seem to become a priority over the people once they make it into office.
It's a good thing that Bush, cheney, and condoleeza rice don't have backing from major energy companies like enron, exxon, and haliburton. It's also a good thing that Cheney didn't receive a $250,000 check from exxon, right after they made [url=http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/performers/companies/profits/]$36b in profit last year.[/url]

Here’s another interesting facts about your god fearing leader: The Bush/Cheney Campaign Is The Largest Recipient Of Campaign Contributions From Oil And Gas Industry in Both 2000 and 2004. From 2000-2004 the Bush/Cheney campaign received $3,964,596 in campaign contributions from the oil and gas industry. [Center for Responsive Politics, Campaign Finance Data, 2000-2004]

Want some more info? [url=http]Here ya go.

They need to remember that the people that fund their campaign aren't the voices they need to be listening to while in office, it's the people that elect them. All this "he said this" "he did that" nonsense needs to stop. Just say what you're for and against and leave it at that and back it up once you get elected. Campaigning as it is today needs to stop. Oh, and they're always trying to get more money...I'd hate to know how much they make by being, "Public Servants." They're better off than any of us on the board, I'm sure. That's not right. That's not being a civil servant. Servants don't make more than their master or they would be a servant, now would they?
I couldn't agree with you more. That's why I find it ironic that the Bush administration can manage to squeeze $4m out of the gas and oil industry for it's campaigns, yet the maximum someone can donate is $2500 per person?

Here’s how that works. A company, for example a lawfirm… needs a bill passed in order to get its way with something (usually a money maker, like drilling for oil in a certain spot). The company pledges it’s support to a politician/campaign. Each individual in that company donates the $2500 maximum. Politician get’s elected, law gets passed. This does two things. It keeps wealthy individuals from donating millions, ruling out third parties with less of a crowd support, and if a company gets both major party politicians to agree on said law, they get the law approved no matter what. Third parties never stand a chance with political fundraising unless they have the crowd… but how can you get the crowd when you can’t afford to advertise??

I also blame the media. The bastards in charge don't tell the whole story for anything, and they're as much to blame for a lot that happens, or how people react as the government is.
I agree.
BTW...thanks for the worms Roush. ;)
  • Darron

Better get some more hooks after this reply… :lol:
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Quote
or the crazy Clinton (who’s already had 8yrs, come on now)

Yeah… 8 years of relative peace, save for a few wordly conflicts. We can’t be havin that!

please note here that in those 8 years we were involved in Somalia, Kosovo, and were attacked twice by terrorists.
Oh, and we also sent soldiers around the world to “police” several disagreements. Clinton had the opportunity to stand up at any point in time and show what the American response to terrorism could be, but instead he fired two cruise missles and withdrew the soldiers he sent into Somalia as soon as a tactical error caused casualties.

If you have a question as to why we went into Iraq; go there or to Kuwait and ask some of the locals what his regime was like. You can start at the Kuwaiti POW museum in Kuwait City, just make sure you ask the curator to explain why the skin on his forearms is messed up.

If we pull out of Iraq now, then every soldier and marine can go ahead and plan on being back there inside of a decade and retaking all of the cities and towns we took in the spring of '03. Between now and then every major city in the US and Europe must wait to see where the next attack will be.

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Israel will always be on our ‘Best Friends’ list. We created Israel. This is what caused the middle east to hate us. Instead of leaving things alone we went in and setup a nation state, kind of like whats going on now with less fighting, so that we could have an ‘eye’ in the middle east. Same thing thats happening now except our interest is oil not security as the media and bush administration would have us believe.

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we did not create Israel; England did. Following WWII there were a large number of Jewish refugees in Palestine, in an attempt to defuse tensions in the region England set aside a portion of land for them to settle. Israel was later officially recognized by the UN.

We are the largest supporter of Israel, and hopefully will always be so.

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Did you note the word relative?

Oh, and we also sent soldiers around the world to "police" several disagreements. Clinton had the opportunity to stand up at any point in time and show what the American response to terrorism could be, but instead he fired two cruise missles and withdrew the soldiers he sent into Somalia as soon as a tactical error caused casualties.
What our response to terrorism could be? You call bush's disaster a solid response?
If you have a question as to why we went into Iraq; go there or to Kuwait and ask some of the locals what his regime was like. You can start at the Kuwaiti POW museum in Kuwait City, just make sure you ask the curator to explain why the skin on his forearms is messed up.
Yeah, because those are the reasons we went to iraq. We went to iraq because they had "proof" of WMDs.
If we pull out of Iraq now, then every soldier and marine can go ahead and plan on being back there inside of a decade and retaking all of the cities and towns we took in the spring of '03. Between now and then every major city in the US and Europe must wait to see where the next attack will be.
And we're not doing that now?? Have you even been reading the news? Boston is pissing itself. You can't tell me the terrorists aren't winning. Our way of life has been further restricted and the terrorist threat is even bigger than ever. You can't go jabbing a stick into a bee hive because you got stung by a bee.

If we weren’t acting like douchebags with our backing of israel to begin with, then our situation with the “terrorists” wouldn’t have been elevated to this level to begin with.

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And we're not doing that now?? Have you even been reading the news? Boston is pissing itself. You can't tell me the terrorists aren't winning. Our way of life has been further restricted and the terrorist threat is even bigger than ever. You can't go jabbing a stick into a bee hive because you got stung by a bee.

If we weren’t acting like douchebags with our backing of israel to begin with, then our situation with the “terrorists” wouldn’t have been elevated to this level to begin with.

Amen to that!

I brought up the thing about boston in a seperate thread. frigging ridiculous. All over a set of LED’s.

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Some people are just idiots. Everyone who freaked out about the Boston thing should be beat till they’re black and blue. Its like crying wolf. Then all of a sudden the real thing is going to come up and guess what. People are going to get hurt. *Bitch slaps Boston :mrgreen: