Just Food for thought.

Current possible candidates like the Muslim Obama
He's christian, get your facts right.
He claims to be Christian.

I’m not sure where this was originally published, but…

Obama's political handlers are attempting to make it appear that Obama's introduction to Islam came via his father, and that this influence was temporary at best. In reality, the senior Obama returned to Kenya soon after the divorce, and never again had any direct influence over his son's education. Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of Obama's mother, Ann Dunham, introduced his stepson to Islam. Osama was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta. Wahabism is the radical teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world.

Since it is politically expedient to be a Christian when seeking major public office in the United States, Barack Hussein Obama has joined the United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim background.

Also, Xeno, on your rant on the Native American conflicts. I’m not saying that I agree with them or thought they were right. I’m not down with any kind of killing (outside of Halo(2)). We are still humans. It was the human sin nature to kill for their own gain back then, I doubt that’s the way that God would have had them go about things, but it’s what happened.

People are quite notorious for doing many, many things in what they claim to be God’s will, but at times they’re quite wrong, and even deceived. Lucifer is a great deceiver and all of the bad things of the world can be blamed on him and his pride. He actually thought he was as powerful as God, and that’s what got him banished from Heaven. Ever since, starting with Eve and the forbidden fruit, he’s be doing everything he can to take as many people down with him. It’s what he does.

As to why we need to back Israel…Israel is God’s chosen people. If we’re against His people, we’re screwed. And the reason the Arabs hate the Israeli’s can be traced all the way back to Abraham’s two sons. The son from his wife, Sara, (Isaac) is the son that God promised him. The son from his wife’s servant…can’t think of her name off hand, Ishmael is not what God had planned. And the fact that Abraham’s favor was on Isaac (not 1st born) is the reason that Ishmael and his mother and decendents so violently hate Isaac and his descendants (Israel).

As to Bush/Cheney getting all that cash from those Co.'s…I never said they were perfect. I include them readily with all other politicians. Also, if the Senate is so spiritual…why is it that the Chaplains of the House/Senate suddenly not allowed to speak at certain gatherings without Majority Leaders or Speakers of the House opposing them? Why is it that Christian meetings that have been held for over 35 yrs in the senate buildings suddenly not allowed to take place? I can answer that for you, but I know it’s not how you would answer it. Because Satan has his hand on many of the people in the government now. And there’s nothing he hates more than to see people actively praying and worshipping God.

Class is over now, so I gotta go…where are all those hooks again? I hope the fish are biting today…

  • Darron
Also, Xeno, on your rant on the Native American conflicts. I'm not saying that I agree with them or thought they were right. I'm not down with any kind of killing (outside of Halo(2)). We are still humans. It was the human sin nature to kill for their own gain back then, I doubt that's the way that God would have had them go about things, but it's what happened.

Sorry Darron, Xeno’s rant about the Native Americans is correct. We are just as guilty of murdering them as we are of slavery. This is stuff that is taught in grade school, even thought most text books have an “America is right” spin on them. Yes it was the HUMAN sin to kill for our own gain, however, It was the HUMAN sin with the CHURCH’s backing.

Most wars from the Crusades (again in the middle-east) to Iraqi (sound familiar??) were committed in the name of GOD and with the CHURCHS backing. This is not to say that the church you or I attend is the guilty church, but there is some sort of church backing in most of the wars that have happened.

In the case of Iraqi it would be the Muslim / Arab Temples (or Mosques) encouraging their worshippers to go out and kill people who they disagree spiritually with. The word JIHAD (Jihad by the sword) means armed fighting in the way of God, or holy war, the most common usage by Salafi Muslims and offshoots of the Muslim Brotherhood. During The Crusades it was the Catholic Church with the same reasoning. Christianity is an off-shoot of Catholicisim (granted not as strict, but with out Catholicisim, Christianity wouldnt’ be). (JIHAD reference is from Wikipedia and my College Sociology professor)

As to why we need to back Israel...Israel is God's chosen people. If we're against His people, we're screwed. And the reason the Arabs hate the Israeli's can be traced all the way back to Abraham's two sons. The son from his wife, Sara, (Isaac) is the son that God promised him. The son from his wife's servant...can't think of her name off hand, Ishmael is not what God had planned. And the fact that Abraham's favor was on Isaac (not 1st born) is the reason that Ishmael and his mother and decendents so violently hate Isaac and his descendants (Israel).

Im going to word this next phrase ambiguously so as not to upset anyones peronsal spiritual beliefs, please do not take offense to what I say. Lets keep in mind that Israel (in the physical sense) did not exist until 1948. In the spiritual sense the idea of the holy land (Israel) can be traced further back to about 1200AD.

The creation of Israel could have happened anywhere the Israelites decided to make home. It was a nation state that was created by the intereference of other nations and only could happen after the land was turned over from British Control.

**lets try to keep the debate from going personal as most political / religous debates get. If you have something to say try to back it up with factual information from credible sources. Thanks!

noted relative, but by that standard we are in 8 years of relative peace. Why do people always look so highly at Clinton? Did no one pay attention to what all went on while he was in the chair? I seem to remember constantly having bags packed and in a closet just waiting on the call.

Oh, and we also sent soldiers around the world to "police" several disagreements. Clinton had the opportunity to stand up at any point in time and show what the American response to terrorism could be, but instead he fired two cruise missles and withdrew the soldiers he sent into Somalia as soon as a tactical error caused casualties.
What our response to terrorism could be? You call bush's disaster a solid response? [/quote] I call Bush's response stronger and much needed.
If you have a question as to why we went into Iraq; go there or to Kuwait and ask some of the locals what his regime was like. You can start at the Kuwaiti POW museum in Kuwait City, just make sure you ask the curator to explain why the skin on his forearms is messed up.
Yeah, because those are the reasons we went to iraq. We went to iraq because they had "proof" of WMDs. [/quote] and you think they weren't there? It's a desert; easy to hide what you don't want found, especially when you have ties to the countries around you.
If we pull out of Iraq now, then every soldier and marine can go ahead and plan on being back there inside of a decade and retaking all of the cities and towns we took in the spring of '03. Between now and then every major city in the US and Europe must wait to see where the next attack will be.
And we're not doing that now?? Have you even been reading the news? Boston is pissing itself. You can't tell me the terrorists aren't winning. Our way of life has been further restricted and the terrorist threat is even bigger than ever. You can't go jabbing a stick into a bee hive because you got stung by a bee.

If we weren’t acting like douchebags with our backing of israel to begin with, then our situation with the “terrorists” wouldn’t have been elevated to this level to begin with.
[/quote]
So we should just fold up and leave Israel to fend for itself? I hope we always support Israel, no matter what crazy country feels that we shouldn’t.

Yes I have been reading and watching the news (sort of part of my job), and I also know the difference between what the news reports and what actually happened. There is no such thing as unbiased reporting. Trust me, you would be amazed as to how far they stretch things, and what they determine is unimportant to report.

Why do people always look so highly at Clinton? Did no one pay attention to what all went on while he was in the chair? I seem to remember constantly having bags packed and in a closet just waiting on the call.

I looked at Clinton as one of our better, most recent, presidents because:

Implemented the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy in the military.
Created NAFTA. --Though I don’t like this policy, if used correctly this could truely help the US.
Increased the Earned Income Tax Credit for working families.
Created the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 which raised taxes by 1.2% on the wealthy.
Never created any “New Taxes”
Killed off the Federal Debt and created a Surplus by the end of his term.

I have told you why I liked Clinton; please, tell us what you thought of him. And please explain what you mean by “I seem to remember constantly having bags packed and in a closet just waiting on the call.”

I call Bush's response stronger and much needed.

I agree with you if you mean going to Afghanistan, but we should have never gone into Iraq.

and you think they weren't there? It's a desert; easy to hide what you don't want found, especially when you have ties to the countries around you.

We did know they had Weapons of Mass Destruction (chemical weapons), how? Because we gave them to Saddam during the Iran-Iraq War. “We” also includes West Germany, the United Kingdom, France and China.
Documentation

Sure there is alot of desert to hide these types of weapons but these weapons have a relatively short shelf life. Example: Mustard Gas has a shelf life of 5 years. This is because Chemical Weapons are essentially bacteria and alive. If the Iran-Iraq war ended in 1988, then they wouldn’t be useful after 1993. According to Iraq documentation and Hans Blix, all or most of the Chemical Weapons have been destroyed. But if they weren’t, they aren’t of any use.

Yes I have been reading and watching the news (sort of part of my job)...

I’m curious, what do you do?

Trust me, you would be amazed as to how far they stretch things, and what they determine is unimportant to report.

I know what you mean. Like when politicians say “Unemployment the lowest ever.” The reality is that more people are “under-employed,” meaning they need 2 jobs these days, just to keep afloat. I know this isn’t one of the topics, but that topic does hit home and is a problem. But that will be for a different thread.

Reason and logic go right out the window when you’re dealing with a christian extremist… :roll:

The only difference between christian extremists and muslim extremists is that the christians have access to an organized army.

So Iran doesn’t have an organized army?

his economy was set up for short term gain, whoever came behind him inherited an economy ready to bust.
Don’t Ask, Don’t tell was the worst policy ever implemented; it’s completely pointless and irritating.

I have told you why I liked Clinton; please, tell us what you thought of him. And please explain what you mean by "I seem to remember constantly having bags packed and in a closet just waiting on the call."

A and B bags (duffle bags packed for deployments)…

I call Bush's response stronger and much needed.

I agree with you if you mean going to Afghanistan, but we should have never gone into Iraq.

and you think they weren't there? It's a desert; easy to hide what you don't want found, especially when you have ties to the countries around you.

We did know they had Weapons of Mass Destruction (chemical weapons), how? Because we gave them to Saddam during the Iran-Iraq War. “We” also includes West Germany, the United Kingdom, France and China.
Documentation

Sure there is alot of desert to hide these types of weapons but these weapons have a relatively short shelf life. Example: Mustard Gas has a shelf life of 5 years. This is because Chemical Weapons are essentially bacteria and alive. If the Iran-Iraq war ended in 1988, then they wouldn’t be useful after 1993. According to Iraq documentation and Hans Blix, all or most of the Chemical Weapons have been destroyed. But if they weren’t, they aren’t of any use.
[/quote]
There are chemical plants all over that country, as well as several nuclear facilities.

Yes I have been reading and watching the news (sort of part of my job)...

I’m curious, what do you do?
[/quote]
currently work in HQDA

Trust me, you would be amazed as to how far they stretch things, and what they determine is unimportant to report.

I know what you mean. Like when politicians say “Unemployment the lowest ever.” The reality is that more people are “under-employed,” meaning they need 2 jobs these days, just to keep afloat. I know this isn’t one of the topics, but that topic does hit home and is a problem. But that will be for a different thread.
[/quote]
I don’t trust any politician further than my youngest can throw them, nor do I trust anyone in the media.

There is nothing wrong with being an extremist as long as you are willing to listen to the other side of the story. Anyone see the news report about Iran today? They are now playing war games near their borders so as to draw the US further into the area. Muslims extremists have organized army’s too, not just Christians. We call them Platoons. They call them Terror Cells. I dont call that much of a difference.

There are chemical plants all over that country, as well as several nuclear facilities.

So that gives us the right to go in and tear the country apart? are the UN superpowers the only ones allowed to use Nuclear and Chemical plants for energy and materials? Where is the proof of the WMDs (scuds, ICBM’s, etc…)? That was our reasoning behind going in there.

It is true that if you have the ability to produce power and materials from nuclear and chemical compounds then you have the ability to produce weapons from them. Where is the evidence to back up our reasoning behind going in there? Didn’t the UN go in there months before and find NO evidence of WMD’s or did I hear the news reports wrong?

The UN was only allowed into the country when Saddam said they could, and could only go where he said they could go. What did you expect them to find?

Not saying that only certain countries should have these types of weapons, but some leaders are far more unstable than others. We have them, but I can’t see us just dropping a nuke on a country because they don’t believe in the same religion or hate the same people we do. There’s a difference, and as much as I hate to say it (and I really can’t believe I’m actually gonna say this) we do have a certain level of responsibility as the only superpower. With that in mind; we cannot force a government which we support and the Iraqis don’t. We have to let the people of Iraq select their own leaders, even if it ends up being an anti-American government.

His economy was set up for short term gain, whoever came behind him inherited an economy ready to bust.

Don’t Ask, Don’t tell was the worst policy ever implemented; it’s completely pointless and irritating.

Short-term gain? We had a surplus within the budget. Balancing the Federal budget is just like balancing your checkbook. Don’t spend more than you receive. Only problem is that the decisions on the allocation of money need to be voted on by Congress and the Senate to pass. Clinton got it done.

Now mind you that surplus was not a true surplus. It was a surplus within the budget but it could have been used to pay off the loans we took out from our debtors. And believe me, we have many debtors.

What is so bad about the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy? Give us some reasons. Persuade us to see it how you see it. It’s too easy to just say you don’t like it. Understanding why you don’t like it makes more of an impact on the conversation.

Example: I like the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy. I don’t think it really matters who you want to have sex with on the battlefield, because they are being use to have sex. They are being use to fight. If a gay guy wants to signup and fight for his country, he should be allowed that right. No one should be prejudice of his sexual orientation. Would it matter if the guy at your favorite resturant were gay?

Incase I took this the wrong way and you think it was stupid to have this policy because it didn’t need to be written down. Then in this case, it did need to be written down. There were problems and they need to be put into writting so that all can see that it is law. Something like that can’t be just an unwritten rule.

I have told you why I liked Clinton; please, tell us what you thought of him. And please explain what you mean by "I seem to remember constantly having bags packed and in a closet just waiting on the call."

A and B bags (duffle bags packed for deployments)…

A and B bags? Deployments? Please be more specific. What comes after “…”? Please share.

There are chemical plants all over that country, as well as several nuclear facilities.

Ok. I will go with you on this…“Chemical plants all over the country.”

We occupy Iraq right now. Where are the WMDs? You say check the Chemical Plants. I’m 99% sure they looked their first after we seized the country. Where are they (Chemical Weapons)? Bush had us all believe that they had them and if they found ANY they would be all over the news. It’s been 4 years now? And nothing???

Where are the WMDs? This leads me to believe that the satellite images of these chemical plants creating WMD must have been taken in the past or doctored. Because if there were any traces of Chemical Weapons in the form of munitions or in barrels stockpiled somewhere…It would be splashed all over the News.

Honestly, I think they were desposed of. Perhaps they were sold. Either way, Saddam didn’t have them.

currently work in HQDA

Headquarters, Department of the Army?

If this were true…You would have an inside track on all of this. You’d be our go-to guy.

You don’t trust any politicians or the media, cool. Then why do you still believe there are WMDs? Perhaps I’ll be wrong, but too much is pointing in the opposite direction.

Not saying that only certain countries should have these types of weapons, but some leaders are far more unstable than others.

Unstable? We went in when every other country in the UN said not to. Bush is unstable.

We have them, but I can't see us just dropping a nuke on a country because they don't believe in the same religion or hate the same people we do.

Right, because we need more than just the president if we were to go Nuclear. Thank God for that!

There's a difference, and as much as I hate to say it (and I really can't believe I'm actually gonna say this) we do have a certain level of responsibility as the only superpower.

Only Superpower? What are you talking about? You ever hear of China? Largest Army in the world; Nuclear weapons and the capability of hitting Continental US Soil.

With that in mind; we cannot force a government which we support and the Iraqis don't. We have to let the people of Iraq select their own leaders, even if it ends up being an anti-American government.

Finally something I can agree with you on totally. Even if they hate us, eventually they will come around once their country finds firm footing.

yes it is true we had a surplus, but to get an idea on this; take the money from your savings and put it in your checking account, but do not change your spending habits. Now you have a surplus, but not really since you just diverted the money from another account but the same initial source. Now add some new bills and increase your spending, then after a couple of months hand the resposibilities of paying your bills and balancing the checkbook to your wife. You had the nice checking account, but she had control over the overdrawn account; whose fault is that?

What is so bad about the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy? Give us some reasons. Persuade us to see it how you see it. It's too easy to just say you don't like it. Understanding why you don't like it makes more of an impact on the conversation.

Example: I like the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy. I don’t think it really matters who you want to have sex with on the battlefield, because they are being use to have sex. They are being use to fight. If a gay guy wants to signup and fight for his country, he should be allowed that right. No one should be prejudice of his sexual orientation. Would it matter if the guy at your favorite resturant were gay?

first off; huge difference between a waiter at my favorite restaurant being guy and the guy that sleeps and showers next to me being gay.
I’m not gonna get into a debate on this, because quite honestly I’m tired of it. It is no more legal for a gay man or woman to come into the military than it was 30 years ago. It was pointless, got a lot of press, and made for some really funny jokes; but mostly it was just pointless.

I have told you why I liked Clinton; please, tell us what you thought of him. And please explain what you mean by "I seem to remember constantly having bags packed and in a closet just waiting on the call."

A and B bags (duffle bags packed for deployments)…

A and B bags? Deployments? Please be more specific. What comes after “…”? Please share.
[/quote]
after “…” in this case comes lots of shots and time in the desert

There are chemical plants all over that country, as well as several nuclear facilities.

Ok. I will go with you on this…“Chemical plants all over the country.”

We occupy Iraq right now. Where are the WMDs? You say check the Chemical Plants. I’m 99% sure they looked their first after we seized the country. Where are they (Chemical Weapons)? Bush had us all believe that they had them and if they found ANY they would be all over the news. It’s been 4 years now? And nothing???

Where are the WMDs? This leads me to believe that the satellite images of these chemical plants creating WMD must have been taken in the past or doctored. Because if there were any traces of Chemical Weapons in the form of munitions or in barrels stockpiled somewhere…It would be splashed all over the News.

Honestly, I think they were desposed of. Perhaps they were sold. Either way, Saddam didn’t have them.
[/quote]
I have no doubt that he did have them. Question is who has them now, and that is what scares me.

currently work in HQDA

Headquarters, Department of the Army?

If this were true…You would have an inside track on all of this. You’d be our go-to guy.

You don’t trust any politicians or the media, cool. Then why do you still believe there are WMDs? Perhaps I’ll be wrong, but too much is pointing in the opposite direction.

Not saying that only certain countries should have these types of weapons, but some leaders are far more unstable than others.

Unstable? We went in when every other country in the UN said not to. Bush is unstable.
[/quote]
and none of them had reason to want to keep us from going in and removing Saddam? You don’t always have to be 100% right to be on the right side of things; you just have to be more right than the guy next to you.

option A: sign a contract with known insane dictator for cheaper oil which violates UN sanction that you signed previously

option B: remove said dictator

We have them, but I can't see us just dropping a nuke on a country because they don't believe in the same religion or hate the same people we do.

Right, because we need more than just the president if we were to go Nuclear. Thank God for that!

There's a difference, and as much as I hate to say it (and I really can't believe I'm actually gonna say this) we do have a certain level of responsibility as the only superpower.

Only Superpower? What are you talking about? You ever hear of China? Largest Army in the world; Nuclear weapons and the capability of hitting Continental US Soil.

With that in mind; we cannot force a government which we support and the Iraqis don't. We have to let the people of Iraq select their own leaders, even if it ends up being an anti-American government.

China does have the largest army, but it is underequipped and the enlistment is mandatory. Not saying we want to get into a war with them, but they aren’t yet a superpower. Russia is on its way back though, so between those two we won’t be alone for much longer.

Finally something I can agree with you on totally. Even if they hate us, eventually they will come around once their country finds firm footing.
[/quote]

first off; huge difference between a waiter at my favorite restaurant being guy and the guy that sleeps and showers next to me being gay. I'm not gonna get into a debate on this, because quite honestly I'm tired of it. It is no more legal for a gay man or woman to come into the military than it was 30 years ago. It was pointless, got a lot of press, and made for some really funny jokes; but mostly it was just pointless.

So your saying its illegal for a gay man / woman to come into the military? It may have been pointless and a ‘common sense’ document but it still protects the rights of our citizens who want another employment opportunity.

I have no doubt that he did have them. Question is who has them now, and that is what scares me.

I agree. That is a scary thought, but assuming he did sell them or give them away then we need to find where they went and get the hell out of there and to where they are, which comes back to the point that we need to get out of there. But since were in so deep already we can not just leave, we need to clean up after our selves first.

China does have the largest army, but it is underequipped and the enlistment is mandatory. Not saying we want to get into a war with them, but they aren't yet a superpower. Russia is on its way back though, so between those two we won't be alone for much longer.

China is a superpower. Out of the last 2000 years they have had the most influence on the world. Being the oldest civilization you have to expect that even though most of the country is under the poverty level. Even if they are ill-equipped Their sheer numbers are enough to scare many.

I agree. That is a scary thought, but assuming he did sell them or give them away then we need to find where they went and get the hell out of there and to where they are, which comes back to the point that we need to get out of there. But since were in so deep already we can not just leave, we need to clean up after our selves first.

If he sold them, fine. Find out where they are and make sure that they are accountable for them. This doesn’t mean we should go to where they might have been sold. You simply either have them dispose of them or purchase them and dispose of them.

Of course there is also the possibility that he sent them out of the country to be disposed of. Like deporting your trash to some other country. But I would like documentation to back that up.

yes it is true we had a surplus, but to get an idea on this; take the money from your savings and put it in your checking account, but do not change your spending habits. Now you have a surplus, but not really since you just diverted the money from another account but the same initial source. Now add some new bills and increase your spending, then after a couple of months hand the responsibilities of paying your bills and balancing the checkbook to your wife. You had the nice checking account, but she had control over the overdrawn account; whose fault is that?

I understand your example, but there is one problem with it. There is only one bottom line. You can move money all around to maximize it’s value, but in the end all these accounts must be accounted for. So you will have surplus, deficit or “0” (highly unlikely).

With the Federal budget, you can’t say we have a surplus of 3 billion dollars in military defense but owe 5 billion to some company building your Aircraft Carriers. This would be a deficit of 2 billion dollars. This is what you owe no matter how you phrase it.

not illegal for gay men/women to join, however, it is illegal to be involved in any homosexual behavior. This has not changed just because of a pointless declaration.

do you really believe they were disposed of? that is not even a possibility. I really doubt he sold them, but that is a possibility. Many countries have them; we have them, but we don’t use them. It’s not the possession that is really scary; it’s the ownership that is.

yes it is true we had a surplus, but to get an idea on this; take the money from your savings and put it in your checking account, but do not change your spending habits. Now you have a surplus, but not really since you just diverted the money from another account but the same initial source. Now add some new bills and increase your spending, then after a couple of months hand the responsibilities of paying your bills and balancing the checkbook to your wife. You had the nice checking account, but she had control over the overdrawn account; whose fault is that?

I understand your example, but there is one problem with it. There is only one bottom line. You can move money all around to maximize it’s value, but in the end all these accounts must be accounted for. So you will have surplus, deficit or “0” (highly unlikely).

With the Federal budget, you can’t say we have a surplus of 3 billion dollars in military defense but owe 5 billion to some company building your Aircraft Carriers. This would be a deficit of 2 billion dollars. This is what you owe no matter how you phrase it.
[/quote]
and yet it was hidden so well……if you honestly believe there was a true surplus, then show me at what point our defecit lowered during Clinton’s 8 years…

not illegal for gay men/women to join, however, it is illegal to be involved in any homosexual behavior. This has not changed just because of a pointless declaration.

Agreed. But people weren’t only being discharged for homosexual behavior. They were also being discharged for being homosexuals.

If you walked in on a guy on guy, obviously that is homosexual behavior. Get rid of them.

If one guy smacks the other on the ass in the shower, its not necessarily a homosexual behavior. Guys joke around or act like they are from time to time. Just think of that guy who liked run around with just a towel flashing people. Is he gay? Probably not.

So, the only way to know for sure was to catch him in the act or you could ask him a question. This question is illegal because of the consequences. The question itself is discriminatory. Discrimination is illegal in this country.

do you really believe they were disposed of? that is not even a possibility. I really doubt he sold them, but that is a possibility. Many countries have them; we have them, but we don't use them.

I’m not sure if they were disposed of. I have not evidence they did destroy them, but that doesn’t mean they do have them.

We do have the formulas to make them but we don’t have any stock piles. They were ordered to be destroyed after seeing the affects of them during WWI. The US didn’t stop producing Chemical Weapons until 1991 by President George H.W. Bush, then the US Congress ordered the destruction of our stockpiles in 2004.

It's not the possession that is really scary; it's the ownership that is.

Geico Caveman: “Yeah, I have a responce. What?”

and yet it was hidden so well......if you honestly believe there was a true surplus, then show me at what point our defecit lowered during Clinton's 8 years...

US National Debt
Now this show’s the National Debt against the GDP. As you can see, George H.W. Bush spent and spent. Then Clinton takes office, balances the budget and starts to put away money/pay off debt. So Clinton didn’t have a surplus after pay the National Debt, he had a surplus in the National Budget which was used to kill off the National Debt.

If our National Debt reaches 13 Trillion we are going to have some serious problems, because our GDP is worth that. At that point our money becomes almost worthless. We need to stop spending because the interest alone will bankrupt the US.

Where is RoushZx2? I would love to hear his comments considering he started this thread.